Archives of Past Meeting Notes
Once again, it was time for our most exciting meeting of the year; the time when we pay our annual dues, and elect new officers.
Ted, Joe, Jay, Shane, Mem, Kent, Tim, Jack, Robin M, Robin C., Sam, Robert, and Jeff were present for this thrilling moment of history. Ted said we would defer nominating new officers until after the other business of the meeting.
Officer and Committee reports:
Treasurer - Joe says we still have lots of money. He collected some more money for memberships tonight, but handed some out to Robin C. to pay for food for MileHiCon.
Secretary - nothing to report.
Book committee - the list of books is good for a long time. We're set through the end of this year.
Book acquisition - Robin had bought some books, but has also found a number at the local libraries.
Committee to find the by-laws has not yet found the by-laws. They were unanimous in their report.
Publicity committee - needs more bookmarks so they can be dropped off at the library.
Nominations for president - Ted, Robin C. and Tim were all nominated for president. Jack was also nominated, but declined. Robin was elected president. (vote 4:2:2)
Nomintations for Vice President - Jay was nominated, and declined. Sam was nominated. Tim was nominated. Tim was elected 8:3
Robin M was nominated and elected as Secretary.
Nominations for Treasurer - Joe was nominated - so were Tim, who already had an office, and Eric, who wasn't here. Joe was elected by acclamation.
Nominations for Trustees - Ted, Mary, Jack, Shane, Eric, Kent
After much debate on how to vote on six people for three positions, and discussing the possibility of running an Australian ballot, we elected Shane, Ted and Kent as trustees.
Robin C., acting as the newly elected president, decreed that all committee members would remain the same for the next year. Kent told her that she couldn't do that, since she wouldn't take over as president until next meeting. Ted declared the meeting over by acclamation.
Mary said she liked it. Sam said that Robert didn't like it because he thought it was boring. Ted said perhaps they should have only had seven princes, it would have tightened up the book. Jay said (with an evil look in Tim's direction) that he liked Heinlein better.
We felt that it was hard keeping many of the princes identities clear.
Ted abdicated the Barney chair because he wasn't president anymore. Mem and Robin raced for it, Mem sat down in it, and Robin sat in her lap. Joe thought it was the funniest thing that he had ever seen.
We discussed the question of why everyone in the book wanted to rule Amber. What were the benefits of being king, when it means that the rest of your family will be trying to kill you? I found it interesting that none of the women in the story seemed to have any ambition of their own, they were just content to throw their support behind various brothers. Benedict was one of the only princes who didn't want to rule Amber, yet he had the best claim since he was the oldest.
The princes were all very arrogant, and might have formed alliances, but only on a short-term basis. Did they really trust each other enough to choose sides that they would actually continue to support, or not?
Kent says Zelazny was fond of stories with a certain type of inconsistent logic to them.
We discussed the Pattern. Dworkin drew it the Pattern. Sam said that it was inspired by a pattern that Dworkin saw in the jewel carried by a unicorn. Mem said that the pattern was their DNA, and it was different from everyone else's.
Walking the Pattern gives anyone with the blood of Amber the power to create some sort of stability out of chaos. Tim said he was surprised by the personality change in Corwyn after he walked the pattern. He was a "good guy", nice, likeable, before he remembered who he was. After, he wasn't real nice, power-hungry, and arrogant, just like the rest of the princes.
Corwyn still did some nice things, like throwing his trumps to Bleys, when Bleys was falling off the cliff. This begs the question of where Bleys' cards were. We know that he had some, since they were using them to communicate with each other. So if Corwyn managed to keep his cards through all of the exploits of his invasion fleet, what did Bleys do with his cards?
The literary device of an amnesiac discovering the world at the same time as the reader seems overused and cliche, but we couldn't really identify any other books that used this same device. Many fantasy books use the idea of an outsider discovering the world's culture for the first time to introduce the reader to the culture and geography of the world.
We had a long digression talking about the LotR movie.
We debated how much of the story Zelazny had planned in advance. Kent said he felt that Z. wrote one book which was sold in three parts, as the first three Amber books. Certainly these three books flow together, as though it was a single story.
Ted said he thought this reminded him of Heinlein's The Cat Who Walked Through Walls. He said that what was important wasn't the characters and their small problems and squabbles. There were shadowy forces at work which the characters were only dimly aware of. The protaganist starts out without a full recollection of himself- who he was and what he was doing. The biggest difference is that Corwyn didn't want to sleep with his sisters (not until some of the later books, pointed out Mem and Sam). He wanted Deirdre.
Amber was more popular than some of the more serious Zelazny works. It became an RPG very early, and was essentially the first LARP. Kent said that the later books were as much influenced by the LARP as the other way around. There were apparantly groups of fans who were so enamored of these books that they were harassing Zelazny by constantly telling him how the books should come out.
Corwyn's reasoning about the throne and who should rule Amber was flawed. Many of his assumptions were incorrect. Oberon wasn't dead, and Eric didn't take the throne for the reasons that Corwyn had thought.
We talked about some of the future books in the series.
What really constituted the right to be king of Amber, since age seemed to have little to do with it? Might = right. Whoever survives, and convinces enough people to support him winds up as king. Dworkin made Amber, and all that followed on it. He was the grandfather of all the "princes", although this wasn't revealed until much later in the series.
What difference does the Coronation make? If Eric can crown himself at any point, then why did he set a future date? If he wanted Corwin there, why set a date at all, except to prod Corwin into showing up?
So where do the people in Amber come from? Were all of them just shadows of the real people in Amber? What would Heinlein do with them? Ted said that the people would all turn out to be Lazarus Long's love children.
We talked more about the future books, and the plot twists and revelations of future books. The plot sickens.
We got off-topic, so end of notes.
Present at the beginning were Robin M, Ted, Robin C., Tim, Kent, Mem, Kerry, Sam, Robert. Joe and Eric came a bit later.
We started off debating how many people had to be present to meet our quorum. No one knew how many were required because we don't have the by-laws. We couldn't ask the Committee to Find the By-Laws if they had found them yet, because we couldn't convene the meeting without a quorum, and we thought we might not have enough people for a quorum. Did that make sense? No? Too bad.
Robin called the meeting to order at 8:08. She couldn't find a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, so she didn't know how to follow them, and since we don't have the by-laws to tell us that we have to use them, we'll just wing it.
Vice President, says the vice is proceeding accordingly.
Secretary - had no changes to the website because I wasn't at the last meeting, and the vice president didn't email me the notes like he was supposed to. :-)
Treasurer - not yet here.
We discussed how many demerits Tim should get for not emailing notes to me. We still haven't acquired a barrel to cane people over (this is from last month's discussion of Midshipman's Hope, where even in the starships, they still caned people over a barrel when they had too many demerits).
Con Committee - reported that they've decided not to have a con any time in the near future.
Book Acquisition committee - has gotten another copy of Doorways in the Sand. Although this is out of print, several of us have copies already, so we should have enough. Book Recommendation committee - still suspended for 3 months, since we have enough books on our reading list for awhile.
Publicity - needs bookmarks. The secretary still hasn't made more bookmarks. How many demerits is that worth?
Committee to Find the By-Laws - Ted can state authoritatively (after looking on our computer) that the bylaws are not in our email box.
Old buisiness - There was no old business. New business - Robin M suggested that we read The Time Machine, since the movie was coming out soon. We decided to read it for next month, and bump all of the books back a month. This proposal was moved and seconded, and approved.
Mem paid $5 for membership for Harry the cat, since she insists that the bylaws specifically allow cats to be members. Kent denied it vehemently, and said that Mem was lying. Tim moved that we table the discussion until the bylaws were found. Robin C. seconded.
Joe came and said that there wasn't much to report for the Treasurer's office.
We discussed when to go out to see The Time Machine, and the likelihood of it having anything to do with the book by HG Wells (not much). We all agreed that it would be a special-effects extravaganza, and at least it would have the same title as the book. Mem suggested that we go to the 1st showing of the day at Cinmark on Powers. Kent is not allowed to come (this was moved and seconded.)
Connor said we couldn't have food in the living room. Robin M. said that this was old business.
No more new business. Business meeting was adjourned.
Tim played the theme song for the meeting, which was "Giant Sick Sheep May Safely Graze". Mem had added a couple of words to the sheet music for "Sheep May Safely Graze" which had been sitting on the piano.
Eric found it interesting that some of the computer communication in the book was using "instant messages". We wondered if someone took the idea from this book, which was originally published many decades ago (1960), and sold it to AOL.
The book was (partly) about a longevity drug derived from a virus that can only grow in sick giant sheep raised on a planet that had been colonized by rugged survivalist types from North Australia (hence "Norstrilia"), and the attempted eugenics of a group called the Instrumentality.
Tim said every so often he would stop reading, close the book, and say (out loud) "what a bizarre little book", then continue reading. Everyone agreed that it was strange, but many people liked it, and commented a great deal on other Cordwainer Smith stories. This is his only full length novel.
Eric said that Smith was one of the first people to get away from the early hard science, and more into social commentary. The science was definitely secondary to the rest of the story line. From his other books, Sam mentioned that he imagined that each planet had only a single ecology. It seems unrealistic to me (as a biology major), but it certainly makes it easier to assign different characteristics to each planet, based on its overall ecology.
We talked about Cordwainer Bird, which was created by Harlan Elison to use as an occasional pseudonym for things he didn't want his real name associated with. Sam didn't like Cordwainer Bird, and based on that, she thought she wouldn't like Cordwainer Smith. Everyone thought that Cordwainer Smith was *much* better than Harlan Ellison.
More information on his stories can be found at http://www.cordwainer-smith.com
Ted found it a difficult read, since he would read a section, and then try and go back and re-read it to try and tie it into the story. Other people said they read it quickly, because they just glossed over the inconsistencies. Mem said that Smith was definitely non-linear. Sam said that was why she liked it.
Some of us found the society in the book rather unbelievable. We discussed the culture of Norstrilia. Why would these incredibly wealthy people all hang around in relative poverty? The underpeople were created to take care of menial tasks, freeing the humans to do whatever they wanted. Some people saw a link to David Brin, and the uplift stories.
Eric expounded on the Instrumentality, and how it occurred in an Anime movie whose name I didn't catch. He wondered if the movie was inspired to some degree by Cordwainer Smith. They tried to control the direction of human evolution.
There were some religious overtones to the story as well. One of the peripheral characters is a Jesus figure (although it is more obvious in some of the short stories). Smith underwent a serious illness while writing the book, which may have inspired some of this symbology. Many of his other stories tie into Norstrilia, so to understand all of the references, need to read more of his work.
We wondered why the protaganist was allowed to pass the tests administered to all young adults. He was a normal person in a society of psychics, and therefore was defective compared to the rest of them. Despite being the sole heir to the family lands and fortune, it seemed to us that he should have failed the tests administered at that age. It was unclear exactly what these tests consisted of, it was deliberately left vague in the story. Why was it done at that age, and not before? Presumably they would have a sufficient understanding of genetics to be able to tell if there were genetic problems in-utero. This level of genetic knowledge is certainly implied by the creation of the underpeople. Some people suggested that what they were looking for was too nebulous to be determined solely through genetics.
The Instrumentality, the group determining the direction that they wanted humanity to evolve in, was not thrilled with how this selection was being done on Norstrilia. To be part of the Instrumentality, you must refuse stroon, - the longevity drug, which tended to prohibit anyone from Norstrilia to be part of it.
Eric said he kept trying to categorize Rod as a bad guy, but he kept doing good things, or having good motives.
Ted mentioned that both in Norstrilia and in another short story he seemed to be saying that death was a happy thing. He wanted to know if this was always the case with Smith. Kent said no,but that he often portrayed death as a better alternative than anything else.
We talked about movies where people were killed as a population control measures. Logan's Run in particular came to mind.
Tim said the first thing he noticed was that it had the same abrupness of style that Nine Princes in Amber had. Tim said it seemed to have no explanation of environment, of places, of how characters feel and react to things. We thought that this was primarily due to the fact that old SF and fantasy books are all much shorter than the modern 500 page monsters. There's just not as much room for descriptive prose in the older books.
Eric mentioned that the story had actual, literal head shrinkers. Ted asked how it was easier to send someone shrunken rather than normal. Several theories were proposed about life support, etc. Mem decided that the only reason for having it in the story is because it was weirder that way. Everyone agreed to this.
Mem thought the background was deliberately left blank, so that the people stood out more. Part of it is that North Australia is that way, it is so much emptiness, but some of it was also deliberate, so that the characters take all your attention.
Smith managed to incorporate these almost chapterly infodumps, without touching on much of anything that you actually wanted to know.
At this point I climbed over the quilt layout on the floor, and left the computer behind, so end of notes.
Prior to the official opening of the meeting, we decided that no one would be here during the first Friday of July, so we will reschedule that meeting to the 3rd Friday (the 19th).
We talked about the PBS series Frontier House while everyone took turns trying to open Mem's container of bubble stuff. J. used an instrument to open the container (his Swiss army knife...). Mem proceeded to blow bubbles.
Present at the start of the meeting were : Mem, Kent, Ted, Robin M., Kerry, Shane, J. and Melissa
We talked about corporations and stock.
I was the only officer present. The president was in Paris, and the VP has resigned. We thought that the treasurer and the president might have absconded with the treasury to Paris. I asked Ted to run the meeting, since he used to be president. He refused, saying that he had been deposed. I started the meeting at about 8:30.
We need to discuss the fact that our vice president has retired. Mem suggested forming a vice squad to hunt down the vice president. She wondered if we had to pay him a pension since he retired instead of resigned. We thought he wasn't old enough to retire.
Mem motioned that we not give our VP a pension. Ted seconded.
Legal counsel advised us that since the VP only finished 5/12 of his term, that he was not yet vested. He hadn't even earned a certificate of appreciation. It was suggested that he had earned 5/12 of a certificate of appreciation. Mem volunteered to create an index card of appreciation.
Samantha and Rosemary arrived. Then Joe arrived. Giving us two officers, and another committee member.
Treasurer: Joe reported that Robin didn't get any money from the treasury prior to departing for Paris.
We began to talk about whether we wanted to do something for the Khan coming up the first weekend of August. It unfortunately conflicts with an SCA event that some of us need to go to. We were not clear whether we were getting any benefit from doing the room party. We had not had any new members from it the last couple of years.
We'd heard that this might be the last year for the Khan, and if it were, then we might consider running a con ourselves. Mem wanted J. to talk to Penny about whether or not this would be the last year. Joe suggested asking them if they would want to be involved in a con that we might run. We should wait to talk about it until after the Khan, when they are more likely to have decided whether or not they will do it another year.
Mem said that she did not want to do a room party for the Khan.
Meeting was adjourned at 8:53.
Mem said that she really liked the book. Still, she found it hard to believe that even people trained for combat liked the Dorsai could make plans without talking to each other about it. No matter how logical someone is, there's no way to know that they would have a meeting at 2:00 on Tuesday in a particular location, or how to conduct a defense of the planet without planning it, or coordinating.
Mem said that she empathized with the protaganist. A socially awkward man who succeeded because of his intelligence and logic. He may be arrogant and hard to work with , but he was right. Mem mentioned how a VP of MCI said that Kent was "arrogant and hard to work with" , but he was right, and outlasted the VP at the company.
Ted and Robin have the book, but hadn't read it yet. Shane hadn't read it. Sam did read it, but it was years ago. Kent said that he enjoyed it.
We talked a bit about the various Dorsai books - the Chantry Guild and Necromancer are about developing mental powers - like magic. The Dorsai are the ultimate warriors.
Ted mentioned the Unified mind. Mem suggested that it was the unified mind that let people know that the only logical time to hold the meeting would (of course) be at 2:00 on Tuesday.
We compared it briefly to the Miles Vorkosigan books.
We talked about other Lois McMaster Bujold books. The Curse of Chalion was a high fantasy book, as opposed to all of her other books, which have been SF.
Mem asked what we could do to encourage people to come and talk about the books. Ted suggested that we charge a toll of one insightful comment per brownie, cookie, or other treat.
Mem suggested issuing demerits to those who didn't read the book. Too many demerits and we have to get out the barrel for the caning. (see Midshipman's Hope...)
Present were Mem, Ted, Shane, Kerry, Joe, Robin M, Robin C., Michelle, Jack, and Kent. Brendan and Connor were sort of present, but did not take part in the meeting. They were playing with their Gameboys.
Robin C. called the meeting to order at 8:19. She proposed that we put Kent in as VP. Kent said that we could not appoint a VP - we had to vote on one with the usual election procedure. We voted, and decided to put him in as VP anyway. Ted was elected replacement trustee.
We were arguing about whether the by-laws were found, and who had them. Robin denied ever receiving them. Kent insisted that he found them, and gave them to Robin, who set them on a table. Ted proposed that we form a committee to investigate potential malfeasance on the part of the president for deliberately misplacing the by-laws. The proposal was not seconded. We reformed the committee to find the by-laws, and appointed Kent to the committee.
Joe was nearly finished with the SMOFcon rebates. Even after doing that, we will still have plenty of money.
Secretary reported that we had a virtual club member - Dianna Lyons, who has been reading books from our list, and will be sending her comments in via email. Robin M. suggested that the book committee get together and choose some more books for the list.
Jay and Melissa came.
Robin C. reported for the book acquisition committee. She has gotten several copies of Doorways in the Sand. We discussed who was on the book committee, and when they might meet. Robin wanted to know if anyone thought she should look for more oop books.
Mem said she had new business. Robin C. recognized her. Ted said that the couch recognized the chair. We decided that we had to do old business first. Robin said that she no longer recognized Mem. Mem said “it’s me!”
There was no old business.
Mem (having been re-recognized by the couch - er...chair) proposed that we acquire the art show panels from the Khan. Penny, one of the people running the Khan, seemed willing to give them to us, but we felt that we ought to pay for them. They will no longer be running the Khan. This will be the final year. (Editor's note: This may not be the case. Since last meeting, we have heard that the Khan, or some other SF/gaming event, may be held next summer) Robin C. proposed that we give them a $100 certificate for books rather than giving them cash. Kent suggested that we form a committee to get the gift certificate. Robin M. suggested that we make it an action item for one member, and not make any more committees. We decided that Joe should do it. When we get the art show panels, they will be stored in Kent and Mary’s storage unit. Joe said as a point of information that he also had some art flats at his home from a previous CSprings SF group.
We started talking about running a con. If we conflict with anything big, it will be harder to get guests and art show entries. We will want a well-known author. Kent said we need to pick a target date at least a year to a year and a half in advance. Sometime in June and July would be good. The hotel rates will be high for summer. We could do it in January, but will have to convince people that the weather won’t be terrible in CO in winter. Anaconism was MLK weekend.
Kent, Jack, & Mary were suggested for the con committee. The Jan date was getting support. CosCon was the proposed name. We started guessing how many people we might be able to attract.
Will we be doing anything at MileHiCon? We tried to determine who would be there, and what the exact dates would be.
Robin wanted to volunteer Kerry for something, but he will be leaving to live in Albany, NY. This is his last meeting. We'll miss him at the meetings, but wish him well in New York.
Robin appointed Shane to find out when & where MileHiCon would be. The meeting was adjourned at 8:57.
. Mem said that she couldn’t get through the beginning of the book. She hated the beginning, and moved that Shane read to us from Plato instead. Shane said that the converstions in Plato were more interesting if you imagined that the people speaking had been drinking.
Jack said that the theme of Banks book was hedonism vs. religious fanatacism. Horza, the protaganist of the book was siding with a race that were religious fanatics. Our protag considered the Idirans superior to the Culture all through the book, until the very end, when he decideed that the Culture was better after all.
The Culture is always shown as being unmotivated, and uncertain - except that it is still better than anything else. The Culture is all just out to have fun. Despite their flaws, they were still the best thing to happen to civilization. It allowed a high degree of personal freedom. This was very different from any other society portrayed in the book.
The Culture is so decadent that it is hard to believe in. They are unconcerned with anything but their own pleasures. A group of Culture citizens salved their consciences by creating the contact arm to bring their decadence to other cultures.
Ted felt that the book was very schizophrenic. He said that he couldn’t figure out whether the book wanted to be a space opera or a political treatise. Kent said that it was both, and that British SF conventions are a bit different from those used here. The author was interested in making political points while writing a space opera. Kent though that this was the least interesting, and the second most confusing of the Culture books by Iain banks. Excision, and one about supernovas, which Kent couldn’t remember the title of, were better books, in his opinion.
He has his characters agonize over their social positions. Kent said that the author's message, being moral, or being tolerant - of those two positions, being moral (righteous), guided by immovable principals, is the more “evil” way to go. It is better to be flexible and open - even if it results in an indecisive and unmotivated society.
Jack thought that the ending was bad. The protaganist dies, and you can no longer follow his inner agonizing over morality.
Kent said that this was part of an overall story arc about the Culture. This one starts in the middle, ends in the middle, and doesn’t go much of anywhere. Kent said that we should never read Fearsome Engine - it is written entirely in a created dialect. It should go on the list of books that none of us would like. Phlebas was the middle episode of a long series, and wasn’t as good as some of the other books that Banks has written.
I read Dianna’s comments. But did not write down the comments on her comments, since I was busy reading.
Here's what Dianna had to say about this book:
Consider Phlebas by Iain BanksWe wanted to know who recommended this book, but no one could remember. We thought it might have been Eric.I liked this book. It starts with an interspecies interstellar war - always a good start. Some people have said race hatred will end when we meet our first aliens because the slight differences between the different races will be so small compared to the greater differences between all humans and the aliens. This book seamed to indicate that it would just give us more and different prejudices. This book had a great number of subspecies of humans as well as aliens all with their own agendas. I liked the way the various types of humans were on both sides of this war because of philosophical differences. It reminded me of the Civil War in that ideas could place people on opposites sides of a war. The two main characters, although not really friends by the end of the book, had a mutual respect for each other. I also liked the character of Fal - I would have liked more on her.
My favorite parts of the book were on board the CAT. I’ve always been a sucker for swashbuckling pirates (or in this case space pirates). The No Guts No Glory attitude of the crew made this part very entertaining. I enjoy a good high intensity game once in a while so I was very intrigued by the game of Damage on the Eve of Destruction. The idea of Lives being an actual human life really raised the stakes (although the Lives were volunteers, a very weird concept.) I also liked the sensory apparatus involved in the game, which made for a bunch of different types of spectators and groupies.
When they got to the Planet of the Dead the part I liked best was the various characters views of the train wreck. The tie up after that of the loose ends was a little lack luster. That’s my opinion I could be wrong, Dianna.
Why did the Mind take Horza's name? Kent said that it was because that was what the minds did - they took the name of someone they wanted to either memorialize or emulate. Kent said that minds changed their names fairly often. In some of the other books, there are ships, where they kept changing the name of.
The minds predicted that not fighting would cause the Culture pain. The minds sometimes sacrificed themselves to protect the Culture. They were a full part of the Culture, and often a dominating part of it. Banks frequently makes the points that the servants are in charge. The individual people, and the drones are usually doing what the minds direct them to do. The minds have a great influence on the Culture, and what services and diversions are available. This lets them manipulate people into doing what they want. The minds helped to foment change, mostly outside the Culture. Preparing other civ’s to join the Culture, or to render them harmless.
The last book is about one of the special circumstances guys making a mistake. Wanted to overthrow one government in favor of another- but he chose the wrong one. Caused a war. But the total impact was negligible in terms of the overall Culture. Allows Banks to agonize over the morality of trying to run other people's culture. Making war on people for their own good is an interesting theory. The problem is that you can’t tell if you were right or wrong until 150 years or more later.
Mem asked if the drones were used to play bagpipes. The idea of a drone - a metal cylinder in a tam-o-shanter is pretty amusing. There was apparently one that did like to dress up - but it would have been rude to laugh.
Ted said that this was about the ultimate anti-Heinlein book. Heinlein says that rugged individualism is the best way to go, but hated decadent governments. Horza hated communism, but the Culture is the ultimate communism. Drones took care of the tedious work.
Orbitals are mini-ringworlds. Actively managed by a large mind - they don’t have to deal with the stability issues that convinced Niven that Ringworlds were inherently unstable. As long as someone is there actively making adjustments, they could work. They had more resources than they could use.
Mem asked when we were leaving to go live on an orbital. Kent said that first we would have to build the minds, then work on other technologies.
Ted said tha t other books had questioned what would happen in a society of super-abundance - when most people don’t have to work. We wind up with people engaging in dangerous activities and simulations. Ted said that he wasn’t satisfied with this answer, although it was very reminiscint of Drinking Sapphire Wine.
Mem mentioned a story about placing embryos in a ship going to Alpha Centauri. The robots took care of the infant humans. When they reached a certain age, the humans took over because of a natural sense of responsibility, and the idea that they owe something to society. Banks seemed to think that only a few percent of humans were that way, but that it would be enough, given the drones to do work. The Culture builds lava rivers and boats that will float on them to give people something to do - distractions to keep them out of trouble. Very non-protestant work-ethic idea. Banks thought that less than 5 percent of the people wanted to work, and only about 2 percent were given jobs, so that there was competition for the prestigious jobs.
SF authors have been writing about the idea that we would have more people than we need to have work to support the society. Ted said that if we only wanted to maintain our current standard of living in America, we could substantially reduce the work force. We have inefficient farming - subsidized by the government. We started talking about politics. Why we do things like give money to help other countries with AIDS - Ted suggested that it was to satisfy our need to feel that we were helping people.
Kent said that someone years ago came up with an inexpensive diet that would sustain health. We could afford to give this to whoever wanted it, without restriction. If they wanted something else, they would have to work for it. Mem asked for a copy of the diet, so that they could start feeding it to Megan. Shane said that biotech was going to improve crop yields and engineer nutrients into crops to remove deficiciencies.
Robin asked if anyone liked this book. Kent did, but he liked some of the other Banks books better. Jack didn’t like it overall. Protag hated the culture because he felt that it was controlled by the machines and the minds. They did control it, but it is not clear if they were setting overall policy. The Culture had some sort of nebulous consensus. It was nominally a democracy.
We started talking about upcoming movies. LotR, Matrix, T3, and Harry Potter. end of notes. We decided that we would postpone the Aug meeting until the 9th. So it doesn’t overlap the Khan - the last one, or baron’s war.
Present were Joe, Kent, Robert, Rosemary, Samantha, Ted, Mike, Pamela, Robin M, and Robin C.
Robin C. called the meeting to order at 8:28. Kent had found the by-laws, and Robin C. looked at them for awhile.
Secretary read the old minutes. People laughed. The President proposed that the Secretary post action items to the list. This was generally agreed upon. The by-laws were given to the Secretary, who had better not lose them.
Treasurer - Joe finished the SMOFcon rebates, except for one person that he didn’t have an address for. Kent said he would get the address. Joe had not yet gotten the gift certificate for the Tegens, but will do so and give it to Robin C. We still have a lot of money.
Committee reports: Robin asked if Kent would like to make a report for the By-laws committee. He said no. Robert reported that the By-laws committee found the by-laws, and so we should disband the committee. There was much rejoicing.
We looked at the by-laws and wondered what the Trustees committee does. Kent said that they dealt with membership issues. Ted said that he wanted to issue subpoenas and call hearings. Everyone else has been doing it.
Book Committee needs to choose more books (action item) Book committee was issued 10 demerits for not meeting and choosing books. Robin C. gave the demerits to Shane, because he wasn’t here.
Samantha is resigning from the Publicity committee because she will be moving away. (awwww :-( She had wanted to get some bookmarks, but Robin M. hasn’t made any new ones. (although no demerits were issued).
Con committee has not met. The Publications committee, which we didn't realize we had, until reading the by-laws, consists of the Secreatary, and anyone else who may happen to be appointed. We still don't want to have any publications beyond our website.
Old business - art flats have been acquired for our planned SF convention. Kerry moved to Albany. Timothy is working on an MBA, and doesn't have time to play with us anymore.
New Business - Sam said that she invited a new member named Jim Heins, and that we should be nice to him if he comes to a meeting. We talked about Sam’s new job in Portland. Mem’s 50th bday party is a week from tomorrow. There will be pony rides.
Meeting was adjourned at 8:51.
Wil McCarthy was at the Khan last weekend. Robin did not invite him to our meeting though. Apparently he lives in Longmont, CO even though one of his books said that he lived in Longmont, California.
Ted read the book. He thought that the book was quite timely. It is about some unspecified time in the near future where the balance between individual freedom and security had taken a big tilt towards security.
The “sniffer” is an important tech item in the book. It was a device invented to detect any kind of chemical agency such as gunpowder, drug residue, explosives, etc. Our protaganist was cited with possession of explosives when he had some fireworks confiscated at the age 14.
Sort of a mystery - first one, then a second, then third person die. Protaganist is initially accused of the murders. Not a real whodunnit, there is more focus on why the murders had been committed. Sam suggested that we read Thirteen Crimes of Science Fiction by Isaac Asimov. Protag has inadvertantly invented something to counteract the sniffer. His invention is seen as a threat to the forces of law & order.
Jack came at 8:57.
Ted said that he threw in enough technical references. The author has some sharp things to say about academia & science - talks about their stifling effects on intellectual creativity. Joe said that author was an engineer with Lockheed Martin.
Ted thought some of the stuff in the book was very peripheral, and was not well-integrated as a part of the overall plot. There was quite a bit in the book about VR multi-player games. Ted thought it was a neat near-future tech thrown in there just for the sake of talking about it. Robin said that McCarthy was interested in potential future careers, and liked to think about them, and then put that stuff into the book.
Sam asked what the thesis of the book was. Ted thought the thesis was that the interests of security can be taken to extreme. It is far too easy to violoate personal rights and freedoms in the pursuit of perfect security and safety. One of the friends of the protaganist seems to represent the voice of reality & rationalism. This character voiced how easy it would be to take the security issue even further. Once it gets started it is hard to stop. Will it get to the point of tattooed ID numbers & scanners on every building? Homeland security seems to be heading this way. Now they are looking for people to inform on their acquaintances. Robin mentioned “home security” Jack corrected it to “homeland” - Ted said “homeland, fatherland, what’s the difference?”
I read the comments emailed to me by Dianna, our virtual member. Here's what she had to say about this book:
Murder in the Solid State by Wil McCarthyAt least the book has happy ending. It is a fairly engaging story. Trying to balance mystery aspect, social philosophy, & character development. It was felt that it was better in some ways than some of the Heinlein stories that involve a lot of flag-waving. Heinlein was definitely an advocate of the rights of individuals over the rights of the state. His solution to ever-increasing social restrictions was generally for people to pack up and go to some new frontier where they could live their lives in relative freedom.Murder in the Solid State said “Heinleinesque” right on the cover.I liked this book - it was a perfect Summer book. Fast-paced and exciting, wonderful for those hot Summer days when your brain starts to feel like the egg in those old “this is your brain on drugs”commercials.
The Sniffer and the rise of the Gray Party promising “Safety” for the masses at the small (sarcasm) price of a few personal freedoms was interesting. I could see how something like this could happen especially in the post September 11 world. The book was from 1996 but even then things were/are going that way - metal detectors at Airports, Courthouses, Schools etc., undercover security cameras and people in public places from the malls, stores, workplaces and sporting events. But for every way to stop something (weapons, theft etc.) there are ten new inventions or ways to go around the prevention. There is never any way to guarantee safety.
I liked the Game World of NEVERland, however I was very upset at David’s casual betrayal of Marian in the Game. I know to him it’s just a game and there were very pressing Real Life matters more important. He did know the amount of time, effort and money she spent on the game. They did need the mobility of the guest bodies for the Press Conference. David took the coin Talisman of Despair from Woodruff without knowing the game dynamics. It could have been a bug for the Gray party (he didn't know who Woodruff was) it could have been a sleep spell that could have ruined the Press Conference, or many other horrible things. The fact that it ended up being none of these things and it worked out okay, except for the death of Marian’s game character of Elishandra, which she took very well. She said it was okay, she was getting tried of it, but she did ask him if he knew anything about it and he said no. I don’t know why he didn’t tell her the truth, I’m sure she would have understood.
All in all I liked this book. It was fun and with a happy ending. Too bad about Bowser but his murder was a necessary plot point, he was a great character even after his death.
Every fool has an opinion and most fools have no trouble expressing them.
Dianna ender337@hotmail.com
We started talking about school “zero-tolerance policies” and some of the really dumb things that have resulted from them. We digressed further into talking about how easy high school was for most of us. Then we talked about home schooling, and calculus. Jack said that Asimov never understood calculus, so that we’re one up on him. Robin said, no, we’re two up, because Asimov is dead.
That seemed to be an opportune time to end the note-taking for the evening.